iMoogle - An FFXI/FFXIV LS (2003 - 2014)

Intro
Due to the decline in attendance I wrote this up as a guideline for people to follow when deciding which job to come. Look at LS list and decide which job you should come as. If you are unsure, ask on LS. Keep your jobs buffered... with merit parties, FoV, Campaign, and other events there is no reason you can't keep buffer on your jobs. "I do not have buffer" is a stupid excuse for coming an unwanted job. Also, I do not care if I make you job change. Personally I never know what job I am coming as until it is close to start time so I need to rush to gear the job we need, regardless of whether I want to play it or not. You can do the same.

I am leaving this topic unlocked so people can place their input. Constructive posts please.


Assists
1 PLD
This is all we really need. If the PLD goes down, any DD that knows how to tank for 15s or less can be an assist. Be smart with your defensive skills (Seigan, Utsusemi) and don't be an MP sink while you fill in for the PLD. Your job is to target mobs fast and not die in the process. Bonus points if you target correct mobs. If I am on a job that can do /assist, it will be me. If I am not and nobody offers to be the assist I will choose someone myself.

Backup assist order: BLM -> PLD -> Anything except the last three -> NIN -> MNK -> WHM.


Damage Dealers
If we are low manned, come your strongest DD that isn't on the "Do not come" list.
Bring food. Meat Mithkabobs or Crab Sushi at the least. Very few DDs use food, time to fix that please.... stop being cheap.

Stop meleeing MNKs from the front, Counter is bad news! If you are a SAM and want to be up front for Overwhelm, move for the WS and then move back away from the front of the mob if you don't have hate.


Support
1 WHM per party (Minus BLM party). For Xarc, 2 WHM in tank party depending on attendance.
1 BRD per DD party if the DD party has 4 melees.

BRD Party Setup:
BRD
WHM (Or RDM, preferrably WHM)
Strong DD (SAM, WAR, DRG, MNK -> DRK -> RNG)

DD party healer: Haste is not an optional cast, neither are things like Blindna. DDs should be Hasted at all times unless you have very low MP. This is especially true in Xarc where Demons can AoE Slow and do a cone Blind. DDs, you can help your mages by letting them know when you get status effects that hurt your ability to do damage. Don't sit there Blinded while your WHM has MP.


Black Mages
3+ BLM. Windy needs an absolute minimum of 3.
Use MP wisely. If you are sitting on lots of MP, please help out with the PLD and THF mobs when they SP, but do not nuke the PLDs before they SP. Bonus points if you can start your nuke before it SPs and have it land when it SPs.


Red Mages
2-3 RDM
BLMs can help sleep so do not need a lot of RDMs.


Limited seating jobs
1 THF
If I see 2 THFs in the LS I will ask one to change. The only time I will not is when one of the THFs is pulling.

Do not come these jobs*
BLU
SMN
DNC
BST
PUP
NIN
*unless you only have these jobs and we are at capacity for your other jobs. People will be asked to change off of these if I know they have another option.


Update history
11-28-2009: Added BLM note for Windy in amount needed.

Note to people who disagree with the above
So far only one person has decided to approach me and disagree with the above, particularly in the being forced to come something they don't want to. Not naming names or making a drama post aside from the fact that if you think it is "bullshit" I think you should help the LS more instead of yourself, well, I dunno what to say.

To the rest, constructive criticism is welcome of course. Last night me and another person went over a section of this in a civil manner and we both stated our opinions on it. That is the type of input I would like to see if someone disagrees with something said in the above post. So please if you disagree with the above please make a post, PM me, or /tell me.

Note to people who disagree with the above
You are damaging the group with your stubbornness, now get over it.

BLU-Great burst damage and great versatility, but cannot HOPE to compete in damage over time. One way or another, you're going to run out of mp. Outdone by basically any other real DD.

SMN-Decent buffs, hate free damage. RDM, WHM, BLM, BRD outclass it.

DNC-Any damage dealer will outdo it, any mage will outheal it.

BST-Outdone by any DD.

PUP-lolPUP. See above.

NIN-See above. NIN is a terrible group job without a relic, and even then it can barely parse even.

The most efficient groups use the jobs are the best at what they do, not the most versatile ones.


I'm sorry if you think I'm being harsh or blunt (or think I'm overstepping my authority, having come out of nowhere), but I honestly could not care less. The information Mosh posted is great, CORRECT information, and to deny this would be arguing from emotion. I could produce parses proving this, but honest that would be a waste of mine and Mosh's time.

Mateuns wrote:. DNC-Any damage dealer will outdo it, any mage will outheal it.

I think there's a misunderstanding about what a Dancer is able to do. As long as DNC is fighting, it can continuously pump out cures. What a WHM can do is stagger Cure 3-5 and curaga for cure dumping, but the longer the fight, the more likely WHM will run out of mp.

Also, Haste Samba benefits all the damage dealers in the party, and defense/evasion down steps benefit every DD in alliance.

A Dancer's enfeebs help the DDs, and curing power can complement a WHM nicely, especially since when WHM needs to rest the Dancer can keep the party going.

I could produce parses proving this, but honest that would be a waste of mine and Mosh's time.

Could and should but it would be inaccurate as all hell if you're parsing yourself against someone else.

You need to parse them against themselves under the same circumstances.

If I were to guess on the parse my newly minted WAR against my BLU...I can definitely eyeball it and tell you which one I think has been coming out on top simply from having experience on them in the zones. On top of the fact when I'm on BLU I'm rarely waiting to engage and spend less time dead from being gang-raped by mobs I'm provoking. There are several other factors to consider as well. Utility things like debuffs and Provoke and emergency cures and AoE Stoneskin, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, we can make blanket statements that one job is "better" than other but only in very specific roles and similar gear sets.

Not really, considering this information is coming from the most knowledgeable players in the game. They have done parse after parse in controlled settings to determine which job is better, and is simply a fact that a BLU cannot keep up in pure DoT.

As I said earlier, this game is dominated by the jobs that are the best at what they do, NOT the most versatile. We're short on numbers, so we have to be smart about what jobs we come as, whether we like it or not. Coming on a more capable damage dealing job and letting the mage do the healing/debuffing is simply the most efficient thing to do. This isn't an opinion, it is a verifiable (as well as verified by experienced testers on BG, can't be arsed to find the exact thread) FACT.

Yevna wrote:

Mateuns wrote:. DNC-Any damage dealer will outdo it, any mage will outheal it.

I think there's a misunderstanding about what a Dancer is able to do. As long as DNC is fighting, it can continuously pump out cures. What a WHM can do is stagger Cure 3-5 and curaga for cure dumping, but the longer the fight, the more likely WHM will run out of mp.

Also, Haste Samba benefits all the damage dealers in the party, and defense/evasion down steps benefit every DD in alliance.

A Dancer's enfeebs help the DDs, and curing power can complement a WHM nicely, especially since when WHM needs to rest the Dancer can keep the party going.

I know what a DNC can do, but if there is a need for a dnc to keep the party alive, the rest of the alliance is doing something horribly wrong. I'd much rather have a solid DD in a DNC's spot, or if there is THAT much need for more healing, a WHM.

17 second recast on big cures? No thanks.

Valenia wrote:

I could produce parses proving this, but honest that would be a waste of mine and Mosh's time.

Could and should but it would be inaccurate as all hell if you're parsing yourself against someone else.

You need to parse them against themselves under the same circumstances.

If I were to guess on the parse my newly minted WAR against my BLU...I can definitely eyeball it and tell you which one I think has been coming out on top simply from having experience on them in the zones. On top of the fact when I'm on BLU I'm rarely waiting to engage and spend less time dead from being gang-raped by mobs I'm provoking. There are several other factors to consider as well. Utility things like debuffs and Provoke and emergency cures and AoE Stoneskin, etc, etc, etc.

Yes, we can make blanket statements that one job is "better" than other but only in very specific roles and similar gear sets.

You get gang-raped from full > 0 by provoking 1 mob? Something is horribly wrong with that scenario. First of all, we have a PLD for a reason. He should only NOT be voking when he's weakened. The /as would then fall to a DD like a WAR, but that WAR should have a fairly significant line of defense in shadows/third eye/healing. Your scenario makes no sense.

Provoking mobs so they don't kill mages is part of the job. You know why our RDMs and BLMs die so often...because people coming WAR or /war didn't catch on to this FACT.

As for the above scenario...it wasn't just a scenario, It actually happened.

2 mob pull near NM lake in glacier. NE voked 1 like always assisted and casually I voked the other. A Gob MNK, No one slept it and I couldn't keep shadows up forever and killed me before anyone did anything.

My bad, didn't realize that was what you were referring to.

btw, that isn't your fault, and certainly isn't attributable to you being war. Bad sleeping on the mages' part. And it only happened once?
yeah............
I'm not sure how that makes blu any better in that situation.

Mateuns wrote:Note to people who disagree with the above
NIN-See above. NIN is a terrible group job without a relic, and even then it can barely parse even.

u got to be kidding me XD

anyway just read carefully and noted its for dynamis hahaha

yea for dynamis, BLU/DNC or other new jobs can gtfu really if u have old school melee DDs

dynamis is not a place for you to have fun with your new jobs etc

its to dish out damage or etc and benefit the entire LS

you can have fun with ur new jobs in sarutabaruta

(Derailing thread) Welcome back Arth! Haven't seen you in forever!!!

(I must know who Nuker REALLY IS!?! Can ya help me out? )

lol Art don't you read BG? It's pretty much accepted fact these days.

most BG kikoku nin are junks anyway, dont compare them to my nin, thanks

and yea i dont read bg anymore

no new info for years, and everytime i see a bump in AV thread, i get dissappointed

haha sorry art, but all you've done is prove that you're the sole exception